Curse

hallomik · Apr 12, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

"Too Long : Didn't Read" or "Too Late : Dead Link"

(I stayed after work to write this and by the time I finished, the darn thread was closed. Mods can close this now or stick on the end of the now closed thread. )

I wanted to try to make an objective pro-LS case, recognizing that the anti-LS camp are not “idiots” or “greedy” as some on my side have suggested. I thought TMakinen made a good effort at a unified theory, but I think I can improve on his good arguments.

Player Types

First, we need to define some player categories and agree to get rid of some others. Here are the player types that will be affected in different ways by the removal of Loot Scaling.

The Solo Farmer – This is pretty self evidently a person who utilizes builds to maximize loot acquisition. More experienced players often engage in this play style.

The Non Farmer – This is a person who plays the game in full parties with either human or AI team members. Newer players tend to favor this play style, although many old timers still prefer it.

The full-party Zone Repeater – A person who repeatedly enters the same zone in full parties to farm something other than loot. Examples include Wurm farming of SS/LB or farming Norn reputation points. More experienced players tend to favor this play style.

Many players will play each of these roles to different degrees at different times. Since each of these player types will be affected in profoundly different ways by the removal of LS, every individual will be affected a little differently depending upon what mix of play style they engage in. That said, most players tend to favor one play style and will most associate themselves with one of the categories.

The concept of “casual farmer” is highly problematic, since it is a mix of other, cleaner categorizations and unfortunately means very different things to different people. I realize it has been at the center of a lot of the debate, but its lack of clarity has fuzzed rather than sharpened discussion. As such, I am deliberately excluding it. If you are completely wedded to this construct, understand I am not discarding it to advance my cause. It is only for the sake of clarity.

There are two other sets of players types who will be affected LS removal: the gold saver versus gold spender and the rare material hoarder versus the rare material seller/user. These player types will be strongly affected by LS removal in ways different ways, and they are often independent of the categorizations above. That is, you may be a solo-farming, gold-saving, rare-material-selling player or some other completely different combination.

I will also treat the impact of two other, more niche play styles: the chest runner and map/mission runner. These play styles do not directly, significantly affect supply and demand or prices, but they are impacted by the presence or absence of Loot Scaling.

Supply, Demand, and Price

Loot Scaling has increased and decreased the supply of various types of tradable items. Its removal and return to AFC will have similarly predictable changes to these supplies. However, how these supplies will change will occur one way at the individual level and possibly a completely different way at the macro level. Let’s discuss each in turn.

Gold & Platinum

The supply of gold will increase with the removal of Loot Scaling. This is an inarguable fact. In terms of drops, all of that increase, however, will go to the solo farmer. The Non Farmer will see no change in gold, and the zone repeater will see a mild reduction. This increase in gold will create an upward pressure in prices. All else equal, prices of various items will rise. All else, of course, isn’t equal. Some players have suggested that there is an inherent deflationary trend in the game where everything continuously gets cheaper. Assuming this deflationary trend is real, that trend would at a minimum be lessened if not fully reversed with the removal of LS. If the experienced deflation is, in fact, the direct result of Loot scaling, we will see a sharp rise in prices. The degree of the change in price or change in rate of change of price is arguable. That there will be upward price pressure, is not.

Common Materials

The supply of common materials will be greater. Solo farmers will generate most of the increase in supply as they will see massive increases in drops of white, salvageable items. As their inventory will fill up much more rapidly, they will often have to salvage in order to make room for more drops. The non farmer will see no change in his collection of common materials, but the zone repeater will see an increase. Why is this? With the removal of LS and the return of AFC, the zone repeater will see many previously golds, dyes, keys, tomes, etc. replaced by white, salvageable items. It will sometimes be more profitable to salvage instead of merch these items.

Determining the price of common materials is a tricky business. My guess is that the most “common” common materials will decline in price as the increase in their supply will outstrip any upward pressure due to more in-game gold. On the other hand, materials used in consumables will likely see further rises as there will be greater wealth available to purchase these items.

Collector Items

The supply of collector items will be greater. Solo farmers will generate most of the increase, although Zone repeaters will see increases as well. Collector items increase in abundance when AFC kicks in. Non farmers will see no change. Collector items will be more affordable as the solo farmers will be able to get what they need rather easily, and the non farmers won’t have increased income to spend on them.

Gold Items, Weapon mods, Armor Runes, Green Items, Dyes, insignias, Rare Materials, and Tomes

I group these items together because they will have similar supply and price drivers. The degree of change will vary, but the direction will be identical. In all cases, supply will decrease. Here is where the solo farmer takes a hit, because much of the decrease in drops will happen to him. With the return of AFC, upon some repetition of a zone, all drops of the sort listed above will be eliminated. Similarly, the zone repeater will trigger this code as well. Repeated entries to the Remains of Sahlahja any other explorable zone will trigger the AFC code turning all valuable drops into low priced white items. Enough repetition will even eliminate blues causing decreases to supply to minor as well as major and superior runes. Happily for the non farmer, he will not see any change to his drops. Because there will be an overall reduction in drops of these types of items, but an increase in spendable gold, the resulting change to price is no mystery: prices of these items will rise. How far and for how long, I cannot predict. That they will increase in price, I am certain. At the barest, barest minimum, the rate of decline in price will be reduced, but I would bet my house on a noticeable rise.

Purple and Blue Items

Purple items (and to a lesser extent Blues) are somewhat of a special case. They are currently loot scaled, but they will be subject to AFC. The solo farmer will initially experience an increase in these items as early runs will result in more purple drops. However, once AFC is triggered, purple items will dry up, and this will ultimately affect blues as well. While the supply is a bit more difficult to predict than the items above, the best assumption is that they will decrease in supply and rise in price as only the most careful solo farmers can long avoid triggering AFC.

Keys & Lockpicks

Chest openers are another special case. The supply of these items as drops will decrease in total (solely to solo farmers and zone repeaters; Non farmers will not see a change). However, most keys and picks are purchased from vendors for set prices, and therefore there will be little if any change in price. More keys will be purchased by solo farmers as it will quickly become their primary way to get a non-white item. It is conceivable that there will be a rise in lockpicks to say 1300 gold as the solo farmers will have more need for picks, and their time will be that much more valuable.

Holiday Drops

I am not certain if Holiday drops are subject to AFC, but I am certain that collector items that can be exchanged for holiday items are not. This means that for some seasons at least, it will be easier to farm holiday drops. The drops (not the collector items) are currently exempt from scaling, so solo farmers possibly will see an increase in the collector items needed to get an item, but a decrease in the holiday items. Regardless, given the drive for titles, and the great increase in cash, it is most likely that holiday items will increase in price. I could easily see a change to 200g per point were LS removed.

Impact by Player Type

Let’s first discuss the Solo Farmer. He has the most to gain by the removal of loot scaling. He will gain wealth at a significantly enhanced rate, but he will find the finer things of the game more difficult to acquire. He will stock up on keys and lockpicks to offset the evaporation of quality items as normal drops. He will be much more willing to purchase from other players all manner of items: tomes, lockpicks, runes, ectos. His wealth will drive the game economy pushing prices upward. Skill tomes, elite armors, rare weapons will all be harder to come by, but the easy acquisition of gold will remove any hesitation to purchase. Life will be improved for players who favor this play style.

Now let’s discuss the Non Farmer. It isn’t actually all bad. The random drops of golds, dyes, runes etc. will fetch much more on the open market. He will occasionally feel he “hit the jackpot” when certain rare drops come his way. For instance, Black Dyes will climb in value as the rich solo farmer will have no way to acquire them other than by purchase from a vendor or player. That non farmer will have much more of a thrill when those rare drops fall. On the other hand, getting by will be much more difficult. While his absolute gold income will actually increase a bit (his unchanged drops will command more on the open market) this increase in income will in no way make up for the increase in prices. He may be able to purchase his 1K armor a little easier, but getting max weapons with perfect stats or applying the runes to his armor will be much more difficult. Elite armor will take longer to acquire as any rare materials will be much harder to afford. New players to the game will find the task of equipping themselves and their heroes a real challenge, and there will be a real incentive to change play style to farming as soon as practical.

Next we come to the full-party Zone repeater. This play style will be punished to near extinction. The income will take a severe beating since the number of drops won’t change, but the value of all of those drops will fall to low levels. There will be a huge disincentive to do any zone more than once, unless solo-farming is involved. Maxing SS/LB/Deldrimore, etc. will only come with a conscious sacrifice of drops. This effect will have game-changing implications and must be carefully considered before LS removal.

The gold saver is another player type to take a bath. All of that acquired gold will have less purchasing power the moment LS is replaced by AFC. Conversely, the spender will be rewarded. He got as much as he could for gold that will have much less purchasing power in a post-LS world.

On the other hand, the rare material hoarder will be richly rewarded. With all the new cash sloshing around the economy looking for things to buy, rare materials will climb and price and will act as a useful hedge against inflation to those who hold those materials. Similarly, those who sell all rare mats to vendors or convert them immediately into armor will be crying as those mats will command much more on the open market post LS. If you really think LS removal is coming, now is the time to convert gold (or items fixed in price to gold like lockpicks) to currently scaled items like ectos and rare dyes.

Next, let’s review chest running. This practice could once again become a viable way to make money. Wealthy solo farmers will come to desire all of the drops they are no longer getting and they will have the cash to buy what they need. Nice golds will start to fetch stratospheric prices again, and paying for keys based on the drops will become a viable strategy again.

Finally, let’s consider the map / mission runner. This profitability of this profession will again rise. Players will be incentivized to get to the farming spots as quickly as possible. Paying higher prices for runs will be easier to justify based in the large income that awaits arrival at those farming destinations.

Lastly, let’s talk about that most scurrilous of players – the bot runner. If he can avoid detection, this “player” will be richly rewarded in a post LS world. With the prices of most desirable items going for so much more, and the non-farmer will not only have an incentive to become a solo farmer, he will have a stronger incentive to purchase gold from a gold seller.

Where you fall on the subject of Loot Scaling will have to do with a number of factors. The more of your time you spend solo farming, the more likely you are to want to see LS go away. If you like chest running or mission running, you would stand to benefit from LS elimination. If you spend your gold as soon as it comes into your hands, you will tend to prefer no LS. If you think the best way to keep GW going is by retaining old players, you are probably anti-LS.

On the other hand, if you like to play the game “normally,” if you like to perfect zones with full human teams, if you farm for drops or reputation instead of wealth, if you enjoy seeing 1000 plat on the top of your storage, and if you believe the best way to keep GW alive is to keep it accessible to new players, you would tend to favor loot scaling.

I don’t believe there is a definitive right answer, but all things considered, I fall into the “pro” camp.

-----

Above edited for typos and spelling errors

Cellerdweller raises a niche play style I did not originally discuss: "the trader." Power or not, traders seek to get rich by knowing the value of items and trading with players for profit. It must be said that removal of LS would benefit this play style. An overall rise of prices creates more opportunties for trading and deal-spotting. To the extent you like to "play the market," the more you would prefer the elimination of LS.

Winterclaw · Apr 12, 2008, 03:45 AM // 03:45

If scaling loot down is a good thing, why not remove all loot and gold from the game and make gear and armor available via some other method that doesn't rely on trading with other players?

joshuarodger · Apr 12, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

good post. personally i don't have a huge problem with loot scaling as i was never a solo farmer before it came to be. now that i am somewhat of a solo farmer, i know that i make more money solo farming an area than i would with a full group. of course it would be nice, as it would be in real life, to have more money but i really enjoy the challenge of solo farming just as much as i enjoy the gold/items i gather from it.

AshenX · Apr 12, 2008, 06:01 AM // 06:01

By far the best analysis of this topic that I have seen. It does an excellent job of breaking down what many people have tried to express (with limited success and narrow scope). Thank you for your insight.

michaelhunter81 · Apr 12, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

good post, but seeing as i think i was away at the time loot scaleing was implemented could some one be kind enough to either explain it to me or show me where to read up on it

******EDIT*******

i think i may have found my answer but if you still feel like answering kool the more info the better

MoriaOrc · Apr 12, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

A good, comprehensive post. Brings together a lot of things people have been saying in the old thread in a way that's much clearer then finding them scattered across 80 pages.

Let's try not to turn this into a repeat of the last thread, though. People who didn't want to follow the old thread (understandable) can get a summary of the interests on both sides here, and at least be more informed about the issue.

@ michaelhunter

The basic idea is that bigger parties get more drops to split amongst themselves then a solo farmer (or a small party) doing the same area would.

"High End" drops (keys and lock picks, dye, gold armor and weapons, tomes, and rare materials) are exempt from this, and the same total amount drop regardless of party size.

The idea is that solo farmers bring less money into the economy (from raw gold drops and merch-fodder), but have a higher rate of player-economy sellable items from the exempt high-end drops to compensate.

tmakinen · Apr 12, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

This says everything essential. /vote for sticky

Fril Estelin · Apr 12, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Vote of the moth, if not the year. Very nice conclusion to the thread IMHO. It may not convince most pro-LS-removal people but it does an excellent job at explaining the pros and cons of this. Well done hallomik, at least your after-work writing wasn't lost!

Gun Pierson · Apr 12, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Nice analysis, you've put some time into this one.

I miss one type of behaviour, the ecto farmer like I often play myself. Ectos are not on the LS list so LS had no impact on my drops, but it had on the price as it's a rare material. But it's actually the same as gold is worth more now. So LS had no impact imo.

Another special case is Full run DoA HM which nets about 4-5 complete gem sets after 2-3 hours of playtime (you'll need to trade some gems for some other you're missing to get those 5 complete sets). The drop rate of the gems from the chests is a fixed one: 2 + 4 + 6 + 8. LS has no real effect here either.

In these two cases, people are an important factor of the value of those drops. Supply and demand.

These areas are safe havens for the experienced farmer who wants some cash.

What I want to say is LS has no impact on such players imo. It's why I'm actual neutral to LS, sometimes leaning a bit towards keeping it, while at other times I see np removing it. We're still making 10 times the money a normal player would. I should be happy about that, but somehow I'm not, weird. So Mike O'Brian and his team fail.

cellardweller · Apr 12, 2008, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Arguably the most important play style distinctions is missing from your distinctions - those that engage in player to player trade and those that do not.

LS hurts the latter much more than the former as most of the LS except items are worthless to them. It was the blues/whites that they obtained while farming that allowed them to afford the games static gold sinks and LS removed them. Players may be forcibly removed from player trading by language, time constraints or timezones which makes distinction along this boundary worse as it is not a conscious choice.

zwei2stein · Apr 12, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

The idea is that solo farmers bring less money into the economy (from raw gold drops and merch-fodder), but have a higher rate of player-economy sellable items from the exempt high-end drops to compensate.

Which does not work well as it saturated market with items to point when but few perfect golds are just merchant fodder worth 300 gold.

Which means that higher rate of gold items did not compensate for loot scaling but rather amplified it.

O dont really care about ecomony that much, but subjectivelly, i miss "jackpot" days when one could get really exciting drop.

Sleeper Service · Apr 12, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26

nice post, as a "old-timer" i know what GW was like before LS.

Salvaged mats that had a (popular) "use" did indeed go up in price (parchments etc), forging elite armour was a LOT harder.

Your breaking up of each player type is accurate but i thought that most "experienced" players did a little of everything, yes including pvp.

The thing is in order to keep up with the skyrocketing prices and decresed drop rates on anything of value one HAD to spend more and more time farming and not doing other things like playing the game "normally".

Todays ursan runs would only exacerbate the issue and as far as DOA gems are concerned im fairly sure that those who use them as income now would be disappointed at their plunge in worth if LS was removed.

I dont think those "elite areas would be safe havens at all. SF anyone?

I miss the "jackpot" feeling as well. But that feeling never got me much in pre LS days, the very occasional drop worth 60k....100k was great but....what could you buy for it except another ultra expensive item of same worth?

ps:

Asimov.

Yol · Apr 12, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Always a pleasure to see someone who can just sit down and calmly state their case in a discussion using simple, well thought-out points. Despite the bulk of text, it's more attention grabbing and worth reading than the majority of single sentence posts.

My main characters have just reached their second birthday, so I've been playing both before and after the loot scaling issue. Before loot scaling I didn't bother with solo farming, but I certainly had more money from just playing the game and having some luck with Victo's axe drops (I had a run of them dropping for me when they used to go for around 25k each). Since LS was introduced, the amount of gold I have at my disposal (factoring-in that I now do some 55 farming, and play a little bit less often than I used to) has gone down. I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, since the cost of items I would buy has also gone down.....since the changes were made to salvaging (you can now pick what to salvage), rune prices have dropped, and also material prices have dropped. The cost of making my 55 was about 10k in total, whereas pre-LS, 10k probably wouldn't have bought a single rune.

I don't think LS has been a totally bad thing for the game, and I don't see why it should be removed now. People complain because they don't have large amounts of gold in their storage, but I prefer the situation where I can afford the stuff I need to play.

Cab Tastic · Apr 12, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

"Too Long : Didn't Read" or "Too Late : Dead Link"

(I stayed after work to write this and by the time I finished, the darn thread was closed. Mods can close this now or stick on the end of the now closed thread. )

I wanted to try to make an objective pro-LS case, recognizing that the anti-LS camp are not “idiots” or “greedy” as some on my side have suggested. I thought TMakinen made a good effort at a unified theory, but I think I can improve on his good arguments.

First of all let me say well done on a good post. We missed you in the other thread and it is nice to see some thought has gone into this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Player Types

First, we need to define some player categories and agree to get rid of some others. Here are the player types that will be affected in different ways by the removal of Loot Scaling.

The Solo Farmer – This is pretty self evidently a person who utilizes builds to maximize loot acquisition. More experienced players often engage in this play style.

The Non Farmer – This is a person who plays the game in full parties with either human or AI team members. Newer players tend to favor this play style, although many old timers still prefer it.

The full-party Zone Repeater – A person who repeatedly enters the same zone in full parties to farm something other than loot. Examples include Wurm farming of SS/LB or farming Norn reputation points. More experienced players tend to favor this play style.

Many players will play each of these roles to different degrees at different times. Since each of these player types will be affected in profoundly different ways by the removal of LS, every individual will be affected a little differently depending upon what mix of play style they engage in. That said, most players tend to favor one play style and will most associate themselves with one of the categories.

The concept of “casual farmer” is highly problematic, since it is a mix of other, cleaner categorizations and unfortunately means very different things to different people. I realize it has been at the center of a lot of the debate, but its lack of clarity has fuzzed rather than sharpened discussion. As such, I am deliberately excluding it. If you are completely wedded to this construct, understand I am not discarding it to advance my cause. It is only for the sake of clarity.

I know the intent with which you make these assumptions but I don't think you can put players in such tight groups. I myself farm although it is probably no more than a couple of hours a week and I am very vocal about LS removal. I play all aspects of this game from HA, DOA, dungeons, RA. Is it safe to assume that as I am not alone in this by far?

Gold & Platinum

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

The supply of gold will increase with the removal of Loot Scaling. This is an inarguable fact. In terms of drops, all of that increase, however, will go to the solo farmer. The Non Farmer will see no change in gold, and the zone repeater will see a mild reduction. This increase in gold will create an upward pressure in prices. All else equal, prices of various items will rise. All else, of course, isn’t equal. Some players have suggested that there is an inherent deflationary trend in the game where everything continuously gets cheaper. Assuming this deflationary trend is real, that trend would at a minimum be lessened if not fully reversed with the removal of LS. If the experienced deflation is, in fact, the direct result of Loot scaling, we will see a sharp rise in prices. The degree of the change in price or change in rate of change of price is arguable. That there will be upward price pressure, is not.

Sorry but this is not true and is evident by the 2 years of deflation we had when there was no LS. GW is a very simple economy massivle dominated by Supply/Demand. And in GW atm there is such an overwhelming oversupply as to be silly. The reason for this is that GW items do not break, they last forever. If we take this to its logical conclusion many years down the line everybody will have everything and all items will be merchant fodder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Common Materials

The supply of common materials will be greater. Solo farmers will generate most of the increase in supply as they will see massive increases in drops of white, salvageable items. As their inventory will fill up much more rapidly, they will often have to salvage in order to make room for more drops. The non farmer will see no change in his collection of common materials, but the zone repeater will see an increase. Why is this? With the removal of LS and the return of AFC, the zone repeater will see many previously golds, dyes, keys, tomes, etc. replaced by white, salvageable items. It will sometimes be more profitable to salvage instead of merch these items.

Determining the price of common materials is a tricky business. My guess is that the most “common” common materials will decline in price as the increase in their supply will outstrip any upward pressure due to more in-game gold. On the other hand, materials used in consumables will likely see further rises as there will be greater wealth available to purchase these items.

yes common materials will bottom out at the trader. In terms of consumable items, well these are relatively expensive atm thanks to LS. Demand here is actually quite high and supply is not as easy to achieve if LS wasn;t in place.
If the price of any of these common materials went up in price if LS was removed where do you think farmers will target? A demand/supply balance will be achieved and given that common materials supply will go up massivly I predict that even these items with high demand will drop in price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Gold Items, Weapon mods, Armor Runes, Green Items, Dyes, insignias, Rare Materials, and Tomes

I group these items together because they will have similar supply and price drivers. The degree of change will vary, but the direction will be identical. In all cases, supply will decrease. Here is where the solo farmer takes a hit, because much of the decrease in drops will happen to him. With the return of AFC, upon some repetition of a zone, all drops of the sort listed above will be eliminated. Similarly, the zone repeater will trigger this code as well. Repeated entries to the Remains of Sahlahja any other explorable zone will trigger the AFC code turning all valuable drops into low priced white items. Enough repetition will even eliminate blues causing decreases to supply to minor as well as major and superior runes. Happily for the non farmer, he will not see any change to his drops. Because there will be an overall reduction in drops of these types of items, but an increase in spendable gold, the resulting change to price is no mystery: prices of these items will rise. How far and for how long, I cannot predict. That they will increase in price, I am certain. At the barest, barest minimum, the rate of decline in price will be reduced, but I would bet my house on a noticeable rise.

I don't understand why you think the drop rates of these items will fall. These are after all exempt from LS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Purple and Blue Items

Purple items (and to a lesser extent Blues) are somewhat of a special case. They are currently loot scaled, but they will be subject to AFC. The solo farmer will initially experience an increase in these items as early runs will result in more purple drops. However, once AFC is triggered, purple items will dry up, and this will ultimately affect blues as well. While the supply is a bit more difficult to predict than the items above, the best assumption is that they will decrease in supply and rise in price as only the most careful solo farmers can long avoid triggering AFC.

To conclude. The main thrust of your argument is based on inflationary pressure from the influx of gold. The only items I see as increasing in price are the ultra rare stuff. Stuff that most players will never own i.e. eternal blades and some of the rare minis. These MAY increase in price initially then start the inevitable fall in price over time.

If everybody in the game owned an orchard in their backyard that dropped apples regularly would you go out and buy an apple no matter how much money you had? Those apples represent the vast majority of items in this game.

MithranArkanere · Apr 12, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

All I see is what I always see.

The only thing left is GW is something like the Xunlai Marketplace to speed up trades.

bhavv · Apr 12, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Didnt read all of that, but for me, the following changes would be the ideal solution:

- Remove LS

- keep AFC out of the game

- increase drop rates, scaling with the number of people in a party

Perhaps make rare drops and increase the amount of gold dropped 10% higher per human party member. So in a full party of 8 you would have an 80% higher drop rate of rares and gold.

Whisper Evenstar · Apr 12, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

excellent post. i agree wholeheartedly, leave it as it is

Chthon · Apr 12, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

1. A truly excellent post. I think your analysis always compelling, when it isn't just outright spot-on. Worth more than most of the pages of the lootscale thread put together. Definitely sticky-worthy.

2. You talk about the economic impact of reverting LS for AFC mostly from a self-interest perspective. I think I would like to see it discussed more from a normative perspective. What's the best choice for the game and the palyer base as a whole?

I think we (meaning the GW community as a whole) have trouble agreeing on this issue because we don't share the same picture of how things ought to be.

3. I love how MithranArkanere seems to fit a call for the Xunlai Market into every thread. But it's particularly apt here. XM would fix a lot of the market's problems by simultaneously deflating the high-end while inflating the low-end.

MithranArkanere · Apr 12, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

3. I love how MithranArkanere seems to fit a call for the Xunlai Market into every thread. But it's particularly apt here. XM would fix a lot of the market's problems by simultaneously deflating the high-end while inflating the low-end.

Well... not all, mostly those that talk about lootscaling, economy and similar things.
And it's true, it's one of the most important issues in GW.
Separation in districts and many outposts ends in people getting so spread that trying to sell something without a trader either takes too much time, or requires you to use external resources like forums or auction sites and the like.

By allowing to get rid faster of things that would be a waste to sell to the merchant, like a req7..10 perfect weapon, economy would have a great improvement, and people that complain about how they lack income with the loss of all that white/blue/purple merchant fodder would have no excuse to use the system and trade to get the extra income.

And there will be many other benefits, that anyone can see listed in the old Xunlai Marketplace gossip thread.

But I admit it, I try to slip things like 'weapon upgrade traders', 'armor unlock' or 'Xunlai Marketplace' anytime I can anywhere I see that fits...

viper11025 · Apr 12, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

OK, lets sum all this up into 3 rules.

1. Pick a title, pve wise.
2. Achive that title
Farm a boss or two while ur at it.
3. Sell all ur drops, or horde them for later.

I make about 5k an area VQing, any area too.
Or I can waste my time on a boss for the same amount of time and get squat.